Col. Ann Wright on Gaza and the UN – Ep 150

[00:00:00] This is Fortress On A Hill with Henry Daddy Kagan, Giovanni, Shiloh and Venetia.

[00:00:14] Welcome everyone, Fortress On A Hill, FOH Podcast about US foreign policy, anti-puralism,

[00:00:23] hip-possessor and the American way of war. I'm Giovanni. Thank you for being with us today

[00:00:29] I'll be flying solo and I want to talk about diplomacy. So war is a failure of diplomacy.

[00:00:35] This was said by Michigan representative John Dingell. And indeed so far in this 21st century

[00:00:43] has been a century of global war with one diplomatic blender after another. At least six countries have

[00:00:50] been destroyed in this century. We millions dead and tens of millions displaced as a result of it.

[00:00:57] You were born in 2001. There hasn't been a single day that US has not either been involved

[00:01:03] in a war directly, indirectly or is conducting a war by proxy over other means.

[00:01:10] Estabulating an instigating, starting fires, different regions across the world and then pouring

[00:01:16] kerosene on it. But the background but in the background of all this, there's an arm industry that

[00:01:24] is maximizing well. Indeed the shares of Lockymar and Ray Deon, Bowen, Northam Group One,

[00:01:31] Group Ed and General Dynamics have been doing well for this past year. But war is also politics

[00:01:36] by other means. This was according to class width and war is politics by with bloodshed according

[00:01:43] to Mao Zed. What has happened to American diplomacy? Why is the American leadership so quick to

[00:01:49] incite or take us to war? Why does every president sense Bush feels the need to be a wartime

[00:01:55] president and present themselves as one during an electoral campaign trail? Here to tell us more,

[00:02:00] we're joined by Colonel Anne Wright. In a 29 year career in the Army in Armour Reserve,

[00:02:07] Colonel Anne Wright served at the NATO sub command, Allied Forces Central Europe.

[00:02:14] And later as a diplomat serving in the US Embassy in Nicaragua,

[00:02:18] Rida de Somalia, Kyrgyzstan, Cereleon, Bikronisia of Gaza and Mongolia. She resigned from the US

[00:02:26] government in March 20 and March 2003 in opposition to Bush's war on Iraq. She is the Navisore

[00:02:33] Advisory Board Member for Veterans for Peace International Peace Bureau, War Beyond War, Gaza,

[00:02:40] Freedom, Plutilla, No, No, NATO, Allied Peace and Justice, Pacific Peace Network, women

[00:02:49] crossed the DNZ and campaign for peace, this the government and comment security. Colonel

[00:02:56] Hadi do anything. Well I'm actually not doing so well because of the state of the world where

[00:03:03] we have the US involved directly in two conflicts of Ukraine and Gaza. We have US troops in Syria,

[00:03:13] Iraq, Philippines, South Korea, Japan. Here in Hawaii where I live is one of the most militarized

[00:03:22] states in the island of Oahu, one of the most militarized islands in the world. So

[00:03:27] it's a it's a tough world when you're trying to have peace and yet as you if so

[00:03:36] rightfully identified the history of the United States is pretty sorted in terms of

[00:03:44] using war rather than diplomacy to resolve international issues.

[00:03:50] Absolutely yes. So let me add, what happened to the days of your diplomat?

[00:03:56] in your career? And what happened to the days of the Kennedy team for example doing back-room diplomacy

[00:04:03] with Krushnav to avoid nuclear confrontation with the USSR or renegade engaging with Gorbachev

[00:04:08] to achieve armed control in Europe with the intermediate range nuclear force treaty. Why are we

[00:04:14] getting Eagle Maniacs like Cheney, Runsville, Trump, Bolton, the Fools like Nikki Haley,

[00:04:21] Blinken, Mediocre President like Bush, Biden and Griffiths like Obama. What's happening to

[00:04:29] American diplomacy? Well first what's happening to the American electorate that elects these people

[00:04:35] and here we are coming upon another presidential election and it's up to the citizens of our country

[00:04:43] to ask the hard questions to these candidates about what they're going to do for peace in the world

[00:04:50] or are they going to continue this never ending giveaway to the weapons industries if you as

[00:04:57] you've mentioned. And in fact, we do have a tribunal that's going on right now called Merchants of War

[00:05:05] which is really really an interesting one where we have collected the evidence against these

[00:05:13] big corporations and what they are doing to people all around the world. You know getting paid for

[00:05:19] by our US tax money, creating these weapons that kill people everywhere. As far as the politicians,

[00:05:27] we elect them and we've elected some doosies and that was when I was in the US government and

[00:05:34] both in the army and in the diplomatic corps. I mean you're really at the mercy of who gets elected

[00:05:42] in the United States who becomes president and what their policies are and they've been

[00:05:50] pretty consistently war over diplomacy. I will, the one thing I'll give President Trump credit for

[00:05:57] and this is about the only one is that he did actually use diplomacy with North Korea and we almost

[00:06:06] came to an agreement of some sort with the North Koreans until of Ormonger John Bolton stuck his

[00:06:16] nose into it and blew the whole thing up but Trump did have three meetings with Kim Jong-un and

[00:06:23] one would hope that Biden would have picked up on on that. We would have hoped that Biden

[00:06:30] continued the work that was done under the Obama administration when he was Vice President for God's

[00:06:36] Sakes for eight years who is Vice President with Obama and that's when we had the deal with the

[00:06:41] Iranians on the nuclear program that they have not going into nuclear weapons which it still hasn't

[00:06:49] but it's not because of anything the US has done after Trump blew that agreement up

[00:06:57] and Biden has not rolled back the sanctions that the Trump administration put in on Cuba.

[00:07:03] There's so many things that Biden has left in place that it's almost like Biden is Trump's

[00:07:11] brutal black dog on so many issues that this should have been changed on the first day that Biden

[00:07:18] came into power. So it is up to us as the citizenry to pin down these politicians on

[00:07:26] what their beliefs are and recognize that we're going to get lied to that's for sure but then

[00:07:32] to try to hold them accountable in some way as this lying is going on and that's where you see

[00:07:38] now the huge huge demonstrations that are going on all over the country about the Biden administration

[00:07:47] supporting every criminal act that the state of Israel is doing on Gaza and the West Bank.

[00:07:55] So why is that because you mentioned that it's up to the electorate I mean the last

[00:07:58] electoral cycle one of the highest the highly income I'm not doing a lot of activism nowadays but

[00:08:06] when I were in the streets there seemed to be not a lot of interest of what's happening abroad. We

[00:08:14] were like doing the marches or doing the rallies for black guys matter for example we get like

[00:08:22] 100 people on the streets right but when Trump assassinated as soon as for example we try to do a rally

[00:08:29] we only get like 40 people show up that seem like it would be not to be an interest

[00:08:33] and what happens in foreign policy and the street. Also wanted to ask you mentioned about Obama

[00:08:41] you know way did the nuclear deal with the rad for example and then Trump comes into office

[00:08:49] and just dismantle you know how flimsy are these are these treaties that these presidents make

[00:08:55] were so easy for the next president just to tear up I mean I just mentioned you were happened

[00:09:00] with Reagan for example in arms control with a Gorbachev and that arms control in Europe said

[00:09:07] for a few decades until until he was undone by Trump I believe right either Bush or Chief

[00:09:14] it was actually Bush Bush or Bush to started dismantling the ABM treaty and

[00:09:23] coming out of all the arms control treaties including Trump following in with his late his

[00:09:32] coming out but you're exactly right I mean how first the American public is not interested

[00:09:38] in foreign affairs until their kids get sent into it with a war and then then they perk up their

[00:09:45] interest interestingly enough US US citizens have not been involved in Gaza although there are

[00:09:53] there are Palestinian Americans that are in in Gaza but this this particular one with the

[00:10:01] Israeli Americans too and yes you're right absolutely in fact half of Israel is Americans it seems

[00:10:07] like most of the the extremist settlers are are Americans Israeli Americans so you're you're

[00:10:15] exactly right Jacob Jacob for Brooklyn from Brooklyn there you go yeah so it isn't until the US

[00:10:25] has kind of skin in the game that that people become interested and it's not it's not to try

[00:10:32] to prevent it to raise your voices before the US gets involved in these military conflicts

[00:10:41] it's after after the the horses out of the barn so to speak so it's really important though that we

[00:10:49] during the campaign whenever there are town hall meetings or any opportunity to

[00:10:56] to be near the politicians or their staff is to keep pounding on these foreign affairs questions

[00:11:04] because it's you know when we look at how much tax money of course there's this spent

[00:11:10] on weapons and the US military versus the social programs that we should be having in education

[00:11:18] and health and infrastructure and things like that you know it's over over 50% of our

[00:11:25] tax money goes to war and the military so it's in our best interest to to talk about that and try

[00:11:32] to get the politicians to talk about it and then try in whatever way we can to hold them accountable

[00:11:38] for for they're not following through on programs that we hope will but will emphasize more

[00:11:46] the the education health and things like that of our own people plus the health

[00:11:52] of people around the world so that they don't die when the US starts doing military operations on them

[00:11:59] right absolutely and it's interesting you are a mention of the because these wars right

[00:12:05] these conflicts and you know they're they keep me more and more like it's like I said earlier

[00:12:11] you know since this century of start been in an vicious circle of conflict one after the other

[00:12:17] and then you forget I was talking to my son early they said he's he we're talking we're listening

[00:12:23] to a podcast about Gaza and he's asking me what's going on and then he mentioned that you know

[00:12:29] someone's talking about you painting paintings would be like old news here in the media but it's still

[00:12:34] going we seem like old news before like that that was like the last raid right that's like the last

[00:12:39] thing I'd paint but now guys like people just move dots to the next topic meanwhile a lot of

[00:12:48] you know a lot of or as among us you know have to suffer with austerity you know they get

[00:12:54] cuts in social spending cuts in this here where I'm at it just holds out several schools

[00:13:00] because of cuts and people don't seem to put two and two together because as this

[00:13:04] spending rises I mean we just rushed about what 120 billion dollars to to Ukraine like in two

[00:13:11] years or two years been keeping that war and life support pretty much the war could have ended

[00:13:17] a long time ago but we just been keeping it on life support and then we just recently rushed

[00:13:21] another hundred billion dollars to Israel while the people that I see in corners ask people one

[00:13:27] yes and then the lights you know keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger so you know what's going

[00:13:32] on here when you start having so many wars that you forget about one because there's a new one

[00:13:37] it's a sad state of affairs when that happens and when there are people still being killed in

[00:13:42] Ukraine and in Russia from that conflict and when we know that the United States was the one

[00:13:49] that torpedoed the peace talks that were going on German Chancellor Schroeder was having negotiations

[00:13:58] with the Ukrainians and the Russians and finally the Ukrainian said the US won't let us

[00:14:05] work on peace and then the former prime minister of Israel also had some negotiations with the

[00:14:14] Russians and the Ukrainians and the same thing happened the United States and the UK torpedoed

[00:14:19] those peace talks so it's there's no doubt the United States definitely wants to put as much

[00:14:26] pressure military pressure on Russia and I guess try to bring them to their knees as the Soviet

[00:14:35] Union was done when it overspent but the Russian Federation is a whole different

[00:14:42] organization it is a commercial business it's not a communist business anymore it's

[00:14:48] it's got plenty of money and there's no way in the world the US should be trying to destroy

[00:14:56] another country and this whole idea that the US will sacrifice the lives of so many Ukrainians

[00:15:04] and the ground of Ukraine to try to get after Putin and Russia when

[00:15:13] Russia had been telling the US and NATO for decades you know the red line for our national security

[00:15:19] of the Russian Federation is Ukraine and Ukraine joining NATO is one of the things that just

[00:15:27] is not it doesn't work for our national security so please don't do this and of course the US

[00:15:34] kept going after it going after it provoking the Russian Federation and sending US military

[00:15:42] special forces into Ukraine to help the Ukrainians in the Donbass region the Russian speaking

[00:15:50] area of Ukraine and an war that started in 2014 when the United States helped overthrow the

[00:15:57] elected government of Ukraine so the US has has bloody hands on so much of the conflict and the

[00:16:09] chaos that's in the world today the same thing for Gaza the never ending total support for the

[00:16:17] state of Israel no matter what it does to the Palestinians is terrible for our own national security

[00:16:24] I can only imagine that after what all's gone on in Gaza and now in the West Bank that you know

[00:16:32] if you think 9 11 was bad I can I would think that there are a lot of people around the world

[00:16:39] that are saying the US needs to have a little dose of its own medicine and karma karma is not easy

[00:16:46] when you're when you are killing people around the world so for our own national security

[00:16:52] and and the safety of people in the United States the US needs to back off this blind

[00:17:00] support for whatever the state of Israel does to the Palestinians absolutely so let me get to the

[00:17:07] Gaza because I also want to talk about your declaration at the United Nations recently but first

[00:17:13] let's talk about a little bit about your diplomatic career and how did you switch from being

[00:17:19] a diplomat for the state and to become a four people people diplomacy diplomat for peace yeah well

[00:17:28] I first was in the US military I joined the army right after college it wasn't that I was I came

[00:17:35] from a military family or I wanted to be a part of the war on Vietnam what I want to do is to get

[00:17:41] the hell out of the state of Arkansas where I grew up so that's like so many young people getting

[00:17:49] out of something leaving home trying to get educational benefits of things like that are important

[00:17:56] it's not that one generally joins because you really firmly believe in the foreign policies of

[00:18:02] the United States although after 9-11 there were a lot of people that joined up because the US had

[00:18:08] been attacked and they wanted to be a part of pushing back on that my first career I had was with

[00:18:15] the US military and the reason I stayed in was that I always I was very lucky I had I had good leaders

[00:18:25] I didn't have sexual harassment and I didn't I was never sexually assaulted in the in the military

[00:18:33] which during that period which was less than 1% of the US army were women back in the 1960s so

[00:18:42] I was a very lucky person very few of the people I started out with and and the army stayed for a full

[00:18:50] career I ended up getting off active duty to join the State Department after I had an assignment

[00:19:01] at the US Southern Command and it worked a lot with US embassies in central and south america

[00:19:08] and I thought that that was a very interesting career or that was a very interesting way to work

[00:19:16] on foreign policy and at that point I was a senior lieutenant colonel so a lot of my friends were

[00:19:24] a gas saying you're you're going to get out of the active army go into the reserves and join up with

[00:19:31] the State Department as kind of a second lieutenant diplomat cheese you're you're too old for that

[00:19:38] but it was like yeah I'm getting old and quite honestly that PT at 4 in the morning it was like

[00:19:45] oh god and I knew diplomats didn't do that yeah it wasn't working for you right that's right

[00:19:52] my feet my legs had already given out but anyway so I joined up with the State Department 1987

[00:20:00] and ended up as you mentioned I was in US embassies in Nicaragua Grenada Somalia

[00:20:07] Uzbekistan Kyrgyzstan Sierra on Micronesia I helped reopen the US Embassy and Kabul Afghanistan

[00:20:14] in December of 2001 and stayed therefore about six months and then went on to what turned out to be

[00:20:21] my final assignment which was the deputy ambassador in Mongolia and it was there in March of 2003

[00:20:29] that I resigned from the government in opposition to that pending war it was an eminent war

[00:20:36] that the Bush administration was going to do on Iraq and I became the third US diplomat to resign

[00:20:43] in opposition to the war on Iraq and so far I've been resigned from the government for 20 years now

[00:20:51] and have been working with the various groups as you mentioned in that introduction

[00:20:57] to say that war is not the answer and that diplomacy citizen to citizen diplomacy

[00:21:03] and government to government diplomacy is the way to resolve the issues of our world

[00:21:11] and you'd mentioned the UN Security Council well I was invited to be a briefer at a committee hearing

[00:21:19] of the UN Security Council and this committee was on weapons transfers and particularly on weapons

[00:21:27] transfers to Ukraine I ended up getting an invitation to speak based on my military career and my

[00:21:35] state department career if you ever get an invitation jump at it and so here I was sitting at the

[00:21:42] horseshoe table that you see at the UN Security Council it was eerie of like I'm sitting here with

[00:21:50] the permanent members of the Security Council and the ten temporary members that are through this

[00:21:56] session and I get to speak so trying to figure out what how much you can say

[00:22:07] and the whole issue of weapons transfers of course weapons transfers make sure that wars continue

[00:22:13] so that was my my theme essentially that the the US was transferring weapons huge amounts of

[00:22:21] weapons into Ukraine so that war would continue and if you ever want the wars to stop you've got to

[00:22:27] stop transferring weapons in and the same for the Russians the Russians have had mostly their own

[00:22:33] domestic weapons productions but in the late and then you know the last two months there have been

[00:22:41] articles about North Korea providing weapons to Russia and no doubt that they are purchasing

[00:22:47] some on the international market too my my main argument was wars will continue conflicts will

[00:22:53] continue as long as these weapons transfers go on and I took the opportunity to say the US is

[00:23:00] involved in two major conflicts right now the one in Ukraine and Russia and the one with Israel

[00:23:05] and Gaza yeah let me uh load a clip for us to hear heard to be able to speak today on my concern about

[00:23:14] issue of weapons and conflict areas Ukraine for sure and other areas of the world

[00:23:20] I myself was in the US military for 29 years I retired as a colonel I taught the law of land warfare

[00:23:27] and Geneva conventions at the JFK Center for uh land warfare special warfare center at Fort Bragg

[00:23:35] I was in the US Army during the US wars on Vietnam Laos Cambodia Grenada Panama and the Central American

[00:23:43] wars in El Salvador Honduras and Panama Nicaragua I was also a US diplomat for 16 years and served

[00:23:50] in US embassies in Nicaragua Grenada Somalia whose back stand Kyrgyzstan Sierra Leone,

[00:23:55] Micronesia Afghanistan and Mongolia I helped reopen the US Embassy in Afghanistan in December of 2001

[00:24:04] I was a part of the United Nations operation in Somalia in 1993 and 94 I was the head of the

[00:24:14] Justice Division for Unisom for almost six months where we tried to recreate the Somali police

[00:24:21] judicial system and prison system 20 years ago I resigned from the federal government

[00:24:28] in opposition to the war on Iraq since then I've been working with groups around the world to say that

[00:24:34] war is not the answer that we've got to use diplomacy that we've got to stop killing people and

[00:24:42] work to control weapons I recounted my history the unfortunate familiar conflict areas

[00:24:51] in many regions of the world and our challenge on reliance of many countries including my own

[00:24:57] country the United States on military action instead of diplomacy to resolve disagreements and

[00:25:05] conflicts as a retired colonel and a former diplomat I speak on my own behalf but as a concerned

[00:25:12] citizen who has a taxpayer pays for the weapons my country uses and sells to fuel wars that kill

[00:25:19] innocent civilians and I thank very much the deputy to the high representative for disarmament affairs

[00:25:27] for your noting of course that it's civilian casualties that's the need that we have for

[00:25:34] protecting civilians in these conflict areas there's no doubt that the weapons supplied into conflict

[00:25:42] areas have to say generously a detrimental effect on the prospect for settlement of these conflicts

[00:25:50] in fact the continued supply weapons will prolong any conflict so the important question

[00:25:57] I think for the security council is how do you get the conflicts to end well we know in this

[00:26:03] institution particularly it is very well known within your your halls the process we're getting to

[00:26:10] resolution of conflict as long and many people are killed until there's an agreement for a cease

[00:26:16] fire as a first step now just like to do a little history of how long these agreements may take us

[00:26:23] to get to where no more people are killed the three-year Korean war from 1950 to 1953 it took

[00:26:32] the discussions for cease firing began in 1951 and finally concluded after 575 meetings

[00:26:42] in 1953 but during that time over four million Koreans 500,000 Chinese 35,000 US and tens of

[00:26:51] thousands that were in the UN military command were killed right now the United States is providing

[00:26:58] weapons in two conflicts the Ukraine Russia conflict and Israel Gaza we know much I know much

[00:27:07] more about because I'm American citizen I watch this stuff how much military equipment is being

[00:27:12] provided by my country just four or five days ago on December 7th in a press conference with

[00:27:21] the UK Foreign Minister David Cameron Secretary of State Blinken said that in the last two years the

[00:27:26] US has provided over $70 billion to support Ukraine and European allies have provided over $110

[00:27:34] million in weapons Blinken said if you look at these investments that we've made in Ukraine's

[00:27:41] defense to deal with this aggression 90 percent of the security assistance we've provided has

[00:27:47] actually been spent here in the United States with our manufacturers with our production

[00:27:52] and that's produced more American jobs more growth in our own economy so this has been a win-win

[00:27:58] that we need to continue I'll put it on the notes and this is what it seems to be all about yeah

[00:28:04] it sure is and uh tenured on I said and the win-win is definitely not for the civilians in the area

[00:28:13] the win-win is for the merchants of debt um so um it was an opportunity to uh to give a little bit

[00:28:21] different flavor I think to the UN in terms of uh really going after the weapons manufacturers and

[00:28:28] war in general and I ended my presentation with a part of a poem that uh has been written for the

[00:28:37] children of Gaza but it's actually for the children of all conflicts and it's titled is Mama

[00:28:44] um put my name on my leg and it's for all the kids that over eight thousand of them have died in

[00:28:52] Gaza in two and a half months kids body parts are being found they don't know who who this

[00:28:59] little kid is or what body part but if there's a name on a leg that they think maybe they can

[00:29:06] they can identify it it just you know the most grotesque thing in the world that we still

[00:29:11] have war as them as uh at resolving problems rather than talking them out absolutely but it seems

[00:29:20] so there is no no interest to talk about because it seems like the the this internet between leadership

[00:29:25] the government and the government uh leaders and the led uh for at least for the Gaza for this

[00:29:33] you know the ethnic cleansing I mean you got to call it ethnic cleansing that's what we're doing

[00:29:38] genocide of war in Gaza uh believe the polls said like 60 percent of americans are against it

[00:29:44] you know and that bipartisan republican and democrat however our leadership seems to be locked

[00:29:51] step you know by partisan there was recently a uh vote recently in the house uh where they

[00:29:59] quated anti-signism with uh anti-Semitic right and hey by vote if where they only lonely uh vote

[00:30:07] against this resolution was uh republican the congressperson to get his name and then um

[00:30:14] Rashida Talibertin she she voted president but she didn't vote uh yay on me but everyone voted for it

[00:30:21] with great uh Zionism with anti-Semitism which is two different things but it seemed like not only

[00:30:28] that leadership the mainstream media as well they like locked step on a one particular narrative

[00:30:33] whereas the the population or and the other direction well it's it uh it's true um although now

[00:30:41] it seems like it's like 70 percent of the american public says that the genocide of Israel has to stop

[00:30:48] and so it's uh more and more the people of the united states uh and around the world of course

[00:30:56] have seen what's going on and the pressure that's been put on the Biden administration

[00:31:01] has uh has resulted in some change in at least the the rhetoric uh that the administration's using

[00:31:08] they still come out totally in support of Israel because it's defending itself but they are now

[00:31:16] at least saying that um that Israel has to be careful for civilian casualties of course Israel

[00:31:23] isn't um and that the administration is talking about kind of what happens after Palestine and one

[00:31:31] of the what happens after these is really uh genocide stops and they're they're saying concepts

[00:31:38] that i don't think an american um administration has talked about really about no longer having

[00:31:45] a siege on Gaza although there's nothing left of Gaza the rhetoric is changing um from the

[00:31:53] administration but unfortunately the the actions of the Israeli government are not changing so the

[00:32:01] the Biden administrations trying to have it both ways they're trying to pacify the the the

[00:32:08] put the u.s public by saying we're really uh telling the Israelis they can't kill everyone and but

[00:32:14] Israel does have the it's right to defense until the last gauze and is dead it seems like um

[00:32:22] so we we have to keep after them i mean in Washington DC i've been in Washington for the last

[00:32:29] in and out for the last two and a half months and going to congress every single day and talking

[00:32:35] to staffers trying to catch congressmen and women in the hallways to talk about a ceasefire having

[00:32:42] demonstrations at the white house you know we do know that there's there's dissension in the

[00:32:48] administration we know that white house staffers are um have have written a letter to Joe Biden we

[00:32:56] know that several uh dissent letters have been written to toni blinkton as secretary of state

[00:33:03] us a i.d. had over one thousand of its employees right uh to the to the administrators some

[00:33:10] anthropowars so even within the government there is a a big split on what should be happening and

[00:33:19] it's it one would hope this would have resulted in the u.s uh not vetoing any ceasefire

[00:33:26] resolutions in the u.n but it didn't a week and a half ago and right now we're in the third day of

[00:33:34] negotiations where a vote on another ceasefire has not come up because the u.s. refuses to

[00:33:42] go along with a complete cessation of of military activity of of israel bombing uh gaza so for three

[00:33:55] days they've been talking to the u.s because that the u.n. security council does not want to

[00:34:02] have a veto well even if it passes it doesn't mean it israel is going to go along with whatever

[00:34:09] the ceasefire uh goug that that israel has to go along with what the u.n. says it's the

[00:34:15] negotiations behind the scenes between israel cutter u.a.e. Egypt and the u.s. that's where the decision

[00:34:23] will be made whether or not there's a ceasefire so actually the vote in the u.n. security council

[00:34:29] it it is a symbolic action and it should be taken um but it really is meaningless as far as what

[00:34:37] really happens on the ground in gaza i mean there are actions that could be taken for example when

[00:34:44] going back to gaza um when the rea had had the uh the recent meeting uh blua two three weeks ago

[00:34:51] uh problem yeah so when when rea was having a dinner or but meeting with uh okay i believe it was the

[00:34:59] out of league and uh in others you know there were suggestions to put like an oil embargo like it was

[00:35:05] done back in 1973 uh and the majority of the arab states pretty much shot it down but they won't

[00:35:10] do that so so there so everyone's listening in the in the sideline but uh you don't want to

[00:35:17] taking any action just rhetoric i mean it one of the things that that happened you know

[00:35:21] immediately after after really assaulting gaza right was the uh u.s. standing battle groups

[00:35:28] at the wage intimidate the other state from from getting involved what does that do there are

[00:35:32] measures that could be taken against against visrael uh that doesn't require a military intervention

[00:35:39] if you recall back in the uh the pretext for being a rat was because you were at uh violated like

[00:35:44] eight you unread delusions right uh israel had body like 30 of them

[00:35:49] there are measures that that doesn't involve an armed conflict cutting

[00:35:53] as i don't like to say it's actually because it's actually get weaponized but there are measures

[00:35:57] that could be that could do the discipline like a whole israel uh kind of for but you know the

[00:36:03] u.s. in the western states refused to they allow this uh desire state to to operate with impunity

[00:36:08] they put it's gonna stand and they look the other way they make excuses for them uh what does that do

[00:36:14] to the international system well it means that the international system is impotent

[00:36:20] that it doesn't do anything it only does things to to uh countries of color i mean the sanctions

[00:36:28] and all of that that go on to african countries i mean in the west goes right along with that but

[00:36:34] here you have uh a european country essentially that happens to be in the middle east uh but nobody's

[00:36:42] taking any action i mean the only it's the hezbollah in in lebanon that's fired some missiles into

[00:36:50] into israel the hoodies all the way over in yamon have fired some missiles um that's about it not

[00:36:57] that i want a violent response but this the whole issue of um boycott divestment and sanctions

[00:37:06] is very powerful and while the governments may not take action certainly the the public can

[00:37:13] i mean there should not be one thing that's that comes from the state of israel that should be

[00:37:18] purchased by us here in the united states or in europe uh we should be going out to the airports

[00:37:24] and for every l al flight that flies into jfk nework boston los angeles mayami we should be trying

[00:37:34] to get the unions the the airport workers unions to not unload the baggage off those those planes

[00:37:42] and we should be having or asking uh a jewish voice for peace uh if not now members of the jewish

[00:37:49] community to go out and talk to all these people that are getting off the flights straight from

[00:37:55] televive right to those cities and talk to them about what what is really happening because most

[00:38:00] of these israeli citizens uh i i fully believe are not so aware of the level of destruction that

[00:38:09] has happened in gaza the reports are that israeli tv does not cover as al jacera does and every now

[00:38:17] and then as abc and bc and all of those um so a lot of israelis don't realize what what has happened

[00:38:28] in their name by their government so whatever we can do to isolate the state of israel

[00:38:35] to boycott the products coming out of it and put in a real hurt on the people of uh of israel

[00:38:43] and i would say the rest of the world ought to do the same thing to us that we ought to be under

[00:38:49] sanctions because our government is complicit in this and we the citizens if we start feeling that

[00:38:56] we're not getting countries aren't sending things to us we don't have the purchasing power

[00:39:02] that really puts an initiative into people to really uh give it to the government about their

[00:39:08] policies but of course nobody ever takes on us the united states for all the things that we've done

[00:39:15] there should have been boycott divestment and sanctions against the us for

[00:39:19] Afghanistan for Iraq or all of these things but no uh nobody would do that and yet it was the

[00:39:29] the thing that would show the war to it would show to the united states and the us government

[00:39:34] what the world felt about these military operations that the us has been doing

[00:39:40] when you have you have ansraeli and in uh Yemen i mean they pretty much have a de facto

[00:39:47] embargo on on israel by stopping the uh the shift going to the red sea uh doesn't you know

[00:39:55] destined to go to israel um so it's economically uh for a very important that is it is taking its toll

[00:40:03] and israeli economy uh where israel and zoroah is doing uh but the same token you know you have

[00:40:10] uh loyasta and pretty much you know putting together a quote unquote coalition of the willing

[00:40:16] and you know of uh military assets go into the to the area to uh to stop the uh ansraeli from

[00:40:24] from affecting an embargo on on on israel do you like uh sanctions an embargo it seems like

[00:40:31] you know the west is the only one there there are a lot to do is no one else can do that only we could do

[00:40:35] that i'll just mint when i was in ishtomball about a month ago and it was for the goss of and trying

[00:40:43] to see what plans we might have to try to actually uh challenge the continuing israeli naval

[00:40:49] naval blockade of gaza uh while we were there in ishtomball the organizers uh in ishtomball said

[00:40:58] to us who had come from ten different countries for this meeting would you all like to fly out

[00:41:04] to inserlick to adonatorchi out in the eastern side of terky where there is a us military base

[00:41:12] and you you probably remember inserlick from from being in the military well it is an airbase

[00:41:18] that the us is using to fly military equipment from europe then they land at inserlick and then

[00:41:25] from inserlick they go on into israel because it's only like a 30 minute flight from adonatorchi

[00:41:32] down to telev so the the groups the terkish groups we were with said we're flying out to um

[00:41:41] to inserlick and we're going to have a big demonstration out there saying we don't want terky

[00:41:46] soil used to be able to transfer weapons into israel so there were thousands of terky citizens

[00:41:54] that had come by car from all over terky to be a part of that demonstration and then while we

[00:42:01] were there we ended up spending the night out at a warehouse area for one of the big terkish

[00:42:08] NGOs that does a lot of work in northern syria there's so many refugee camps that are in

[00:42:14] northern syria and they were telling us that there are 28 us military bases in northern syria

[00:42:21] i mean these are small bases but they are the us footprint and we know that there have been

[00:42:28] missile attacks on some of these bases since october 7 that various groups are

[00:42:38] saying to the us military we don't like what you're doing in supporting israel we were all the way

[00:42:43] out there in adonatorchi and then we ask what is the feeling of the people around the city of adonatorchi

[00:42:51] we've gone out to the military base and we don't like that base being used to transfer military

[00:42:57] weapons and they said well it's really interesting because israel has used the the ports that are

[00:43:04] just south of adonatorchi as one of the commercial ways that european well turkish

[00:43:14] turkish businessmen and commercial interests have had a large business with israel and so

[00:43:23] they were telling us they said it's really difficult to get our own businessman to boycott israel

[00:43:31] because this has been their lifeline for 20 years now so it's it's a double edged sword how all

[00:43:38] of this works on the sanctions and who is getting who's going to lose money if if products are sanctioned

[00:43:47] for for israel yeah and under sanctioning israel i mean the trove administration called that

[00:43:54] biggest diplomat breakthrough is what they were doing with the abram of portrait and with the

[00:44:00] abram of course the trove administration gave israeli the gong height which is the

[00:44:05] civil territory the achievement that Trump's talking about the the abram of court it was to

[00:44:12] to all the are of all the Arab states to make peace with israel as if they were at war with each other

[00:44:17] they're not at war with each other so why you have to make an accord to make peace with israel right

[00:44:21] they already trade with each other right so what was the purpose of the abram court some say that

[00:44:26] it was to formalize it and by doing so pretty much were buried the palestinian question forever

[00:44:32] or your thoughts on that well i i think you're right that was the purpose of it is trying to

[00:44:38] to bury the rights of the Palestinians another part of that also was the the trump family

[00:44:48] financial benefit from it where you have Jared Kushner who now has an equity firm with

[00:44:55] saudi arabia in the billions of dollars so there was an economic benefit from

[00:45:02] to going to some of trump's family and key advisors on this abraham accord and of course part of it

[00:45:10] was moving the u.s. embassy from televeev to jirusselam something that was

[00:45:16] prohibited i mean that that prohibited through the oslo accords prohibited everywhere because

[00:45:21] it was a flashpoint in relations with uh with the palestinians and really with the rest of the arab

[00:45:28] world and trump went ahead and did it and got away with it so the the abraham accords i think are

[00:45:36] in tatters now and as this they should be after what israel has been doing to the palestinians

[00:45:43] they never should have happened uh because israel has done nothing to to help the palestinians and

[00:45:52] instead these accords were to essentially be a gift to israel or its brutality for on on the

[00:45:59] palestinians it would condone and normalize uh israel's relationship with the palestinians yeah

[00:46:05] and it would be being as a business of usually yeah so the accords the more of them that are dumped

[00:46:13] until there is the recognition in israel that their actions have to uh show respect for the palestinians

[00:46:22] which will take you know 50 more years before they'll ever overcome the whole they've dug themselves

[00:46:29] in uh in this 78 day genocide that they've done on the palestinians and in fact i don't think

[00:46:37] they'll ever be able to dig out of this hole i think they created such a security nightmare for

[00:46:43] their own selves it's a very dangerous thing that they've done for themselves and for for the united

[00:46:49] states and you do you think this will this action that they've taken will backfiring them i mean do

[00:46:55] you think the global majority will forget about this i mean the global majority is up in you know

[00:46:59] if an honest about this they're not able to do anything more directly because they're out

[00:47:04] the means to but the public opinion is in rage of what's happening right before our eyes i believe

[00:47:08] leaving the first genocide or ethnic cleansing that that has been done and brought their like

[00:47:14] you know everybody can see but do you think they'll be you think this they will have repercussions

[00:47:19] for the for for the united states uh uh based on what they're doing well i certainly hope it has

[00:47:24] terrible repercussions for them they should not be able to get away with this i mean there there

[00:47:29] have been some other genocides i mean you look what Milosevic did in the muslim Serbs

[00:47:35] you look in Rwanda where two million were killed and the the genocide there

[00:47:42] and people were held accountable afterwards um so it is up to us to keep the pressure on

[00:47:50] and it won't be through the u.s government for sure but it'll be through civil organizations which

[00:47:56] are already filing lawsuits in the international criminal court and the international court of

[00:48:01] justice uh on the issue of Israeli actions in gaza so we have to keep supporting those organizations

[00:48:11] uh and other and countries that are willing to step up and be a part of these lawsuits

[00:48:17] in a hundred and fifty five countries uh voted in the u.n general assembly for a cease fire

[00:48:24] uh in gaza so there are lots of countries that are so outraged about what israel is doing and

[00:48:31] i certainly hope uh boycott and sanctions happen to the state of israel they should be happening

[00:48:37] right now as funny you mentioned earlier about uh sashine no symbols of america intersection uh

[00:48:44] a reo reading about the terrible financial cost that big donalds and and starbucks have been

[00:48:50] having because of this me i read some i read that in some countries have been they've been

[00:48:55] shutting down because of people boycotting these businesses that symbols that are symbol to america

[00:49:02] and these corporations are trying to distance themselves from what the franchises in israel

[00:49:08] have been doing which is essentially giving away these products like donalds hamburgers and

[00:49:14] and starbucks coffee to the israeli soldiers and uh the boycotts have been so strong and in fact

[00:49:21] they were going on in turkey when i was there uh kokakola is another one that's boycott there

[00:49:26] was a whole list of them and as we would go into the markets uh uh and stop at places that our

[00:49:33] turkish friends would say oh you can't buy this that's on the boycott list can't do this boycott

[00:49:39] so things like uh McDonald's and and starbucks have had to come out to say listen this is not us

[00:49:46] as an international policy this is something that israel did but don't take it out on us

[00:49:52] but people are absolutely well uh and i think there's a good place for us to wrap it up

[00:50:00] fully day uh thank you so much for coming onto the show and sharing your time with us

[00:50:05] all your thoughts the experience this uh where can we find your work?

[00:50:09] yeah well thank you very much it's been a pleasure to be with you i do have a website it's called

[00:50:15] voices of conscience calm and i list of the articles that i've written and the speaking engagements

[00:50:22] and things like that uh i do a lot of articles in fact i've just had one that has come out on

[00:50:30] julian asange and a previous one that of course was on gaza um so all of those are listed on voices

[00:50:38] of conscience calm and uh where do we find uh uh information and actions or or actions you know

[00:50:48] listeners should consider on the topics that we hit today?

[00:50:52] well if you just google uh uh Palestinian protests in the united states there are four or five

[00:50:59] different websites that will pop up that will have uh listing state by state by state of

[00:51:05] of things that are happening so in your own community you can find uh uh what's going on

[00:51:12] veterans for peace code pink women for peace uh peace action all of these organizations have on their

[00:51:20] websites uh actions that you can take and uh petitions you can sign and uh the telephone numbers

[00:51:29] of your congress persons and the white house and the department of defense so there's a lot of

[00:51:34] material out there so that before you finish breakfast every day please call your congress people

[00:51:40] write them email them uh there's a lot we can do no matter where we are in in our communities

[00:51:47] but let me ask some do you recommend writing uh email or um you know hand in paper?

[00:51:54] uh i think emails certainly the easiest and these are counted and they're printed out in the

[00:52:02] congressional offices that's one of the things that we ask the interns when we walk into an office

[00:52:07] have you been getting a lot of phone calls today on gaza have you been getting a lot of emails

[00:52:13] and we we ask them how many have you gotten and they'll go to their list and tell you well today

[00:52:19] so far we've gotten 50 calls and we've gotten 15 emails and uh if if they get handwritten letters

[00:52:28] they'll they'll say that so they are supposed to be keeping count of it and from what we see they are

[00:52:35] so um it's whatever is the easiest if it's easier for a person to write something and

[00:52:41] handwrite it or type it up and then put it in an envelope and send it although it takes a long time

[00:52:46] to get through all of the security uh parts of getting things to the White House and the

[00:52:52] in the congress so the emails go through fast like instantly and i would recommend using that if

[00:52:59] people are comfortable with them yeah i just sold this at point again those automated uh you know back

[00:53:06] you know uh you like do they even read it well they do and at least somebody has gone through

[00:53:13] to at least figure out the topic that you had talked about and send you the form letter for that

[00:53:17] topic so but then to call and see if you can't get time with one of the staffers and develop a

[00:53:25] relationship with one of the the foreign affairs staffers or the legislative aids uh is

[00:53:32] is hard to do but it's worth it when you can you can sometimes get somebody on the phone that'll

[00:53:38] talk to you but then to make sure that you don't drone on forever that you have a little

[00:53:43] elevator speech two or three minutes long and then then that's it because these folks

[00:53:48] definitely are very very busy and they don't have time for our what we would like to do is a 20-minute

[00:53:55] oration on our feelings on whatever topic and any last country for the park

[00:54:00] well keep after them keep going um it's it's up to us as citizens to affect change in our own

[00:54:08] governments and certainly uh the fact that the United States uses wars instead of diplomacy

[00:54:15] is something we have to keep after them on thank you and thank you thank you all for joining us

[00:54:20] tonight uh and i hope to you against them thank you money is tight these days for everyone

[00:54:28] penny-pinching to make it through the month often doesn't give people the funds to contribute to

[00:54:34] a creator they support so we consider it the highest honor that folks help us fund the podcast

[00:54:40] in many dollar amount they're able patreon's is the main place to do that in addition any support

[00:54:45] we receive make sure we can continue to provide our main epistos free for everyone and for supporters

[00:54:51] who can donate ten dollars a month or more they will be listed right here as an honorary producer

[00:54:57] like these fine folks

[00:55:02] faheem's everyone dream eric phillips paulapel july de pre Thomas Benson Janet Hanson

[00:55:12] ren jacob scott spalding spooky tooth helgeberg and howard rentals however if patreon is in your

[00:55:22] style you can contribute directly through paypal at paypal.me forward slash forchressonahill or

[00:55:29] please check out our store on spread shirt for some great forchress merch we're on twitter and

[00:55:35] on facebook.com at forchressonahill you can find our full collection of episodes at www.forchressonahill.com

[00:55:44] skepticism is one's best armor never forget it we'll see you next time

[00:56:05] you pay attention

[00:56:09] i will not detain you long