US–Israel offensive on Iran, Narrative Warfare, and the Costs of Escalation - Ep 178

this is Fortress On A Hill, with Henri, Danny, Kaygan, Jo

vonni, Shiloh, Monisha , and Mike

welcome everyone to Fortunes in Hill, a podcast about

US foreign policy, anti imperialism, skepticism, and American way of war.

I'm Giovanni.

I'm here with Kagan and Monisha.

Thank you for being with us today.

Hey, guys.

How you guys doing today?

Excellent.

Wonderful.

Happy days, right?

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

so we have a returning guest today.

but first on February 28th, 2026, the US and Israel embarked on a treacherous

surprise, decapitation strike a war aggression against the Persian Lion, Iran.

This will be the second surprise attack against Iran.

While the US and Iran were in the middle of what has been described as

positive negotiations, the first attack occurred the previous year in June, 2025.

It began when the terrorist sales inside Iran initiated synchronized

assassination campaign against Iranian leadership scientists and

journals, while many of them were in their homes with anti-tank missiles.

this was followed by an Israeli airstrike dub operation Air, operation Rising Line.

Within hours, Iran retaliated with barrage of missiles and drones

against Zion State in operation name Operation Midnight Hammer.

After a tippo TA exchange, Israel's defenses were overwhelmed.

Prompting for a call for American intervention, the US dropped a

symbolic bomb on the Iranian facility to save its ally and save face, and

Iran replied by striking an American basin, Qatar, just like that.

The 12 day War was over.

This time around the US joined from the onset with another decapitation stripe.

This time killing the leader of the Iranian Revolution, spiritual leader of

of Shia Islam, Ayatollah Ali Khomeini.

And now we have a regional war against Iran has been planned for years,

dating back as far to its revolution.

In 1979 when Iraq was instrumentalized to attack and strangle the

young revolution in the crib.

A 2019 paper by the Brooklyns Institute entitled, which Path to Persia, options

for a New American strategy towards Iran, outlined strategies to degrade

defeat and top of the Iranian government.

The obsession to top of Iran went to overdrive after the invasion in Iraq.

To a point that people in the Bush two administration trium

declare boys go to Baghdad, but real men go to Teran for years.

Benjamin Tonno has been looking for a US president to make this fantasy a reality.

He seems to have found one.

Let's discuss further.

Like I said, we have a returning guest, Jake Tucker.

Tucker is an organizer and a veteran of the Iraq War.

He's a member of Above Faith, co-founder of Oppress, and a

co-founder of the newly formed hands off Latin America or Ola, SATX.

Jake, how you doing today?

Doing well, thanks for having me on y'all.

All right, let's get to it, man.

What is going on in Iran?

What are you guys are following?

What are you guys seeing?

I was watching stuff the other day about how, you know, when,

before we knew that the strike.

that had killed the bunch of kids, the girls and their teachers, that it was just

really disgusting to see what Trump said.

When we found out what actually happened.

He was basically just, he blamed it on Iran.

He said Iran had tomahawks, which is like, no, the only people that have

tomahawks are us, a Australia and the uk.

So it couldn't have been them.

And it just, it was so stupid.

He's just like, he lies out of his face.

'cause that's all he does.

He knows how to lie,

Yes.

It was interesting that the first, like in this first, the

first strike was at school.

It seemed like it wasn't like.

They couldn't hide it, they couldn't say it was a mistake,

but it was actually intentional.

It was intentional to hit that school.

and what they're doing, what they seem to be doing right now is just

doing the, a Gaza style operation.

Just hitting anything, seeing anything, hitting people, hitting,

buildings, infrastructure, civilian infrastructure and so forth.

Just carpet bombing, Tehran, to, like a, like a Gaza operation to try to bring

the, the grand people into submission.

Jay, what, what do

have you heard that they're targeting leftists?

That like I saw that, they've been targeting like any leftist or any

like, people that could challenge them.

Israel's ability to create their Greater Israel project is all just

about this whole, that's what this war is all about, is them to balkanize

Iran and turn it into a failed state.

Yeah, sorry,

Jay, what you're saying.

Yeah, so I mean, there's a lot of very notable things.

going back to, last summer's, 12 day war a lot of the assessments we saw

then was basically, that the US kind of needed that, ceasefire because, air

defense was getting, used up I guess just imperialist hubris basically said

they were prepared for something this time that maybe they weren't last time.

But it's tough to know because it's like you'll listen to certain sources,

like the ones I kind of typically go to, and they'll talk about how, Iran

is grinding down the air defenses of Israel, the United States.

And then, the Gulf monarchies that, that the US has bases, around

are just the regional countries that the US has their bases on.

And then you'll listen to anything basically on the mainstream, and

it's just a nonstop, like, this is going swimmingly, like Iran

already knows they lost and so on.

And so, the term fog of war gets used a lot, but it really is, I mean,

I don't have people on the ground.

I don't have any of that.

So it's like hard to make, genuine assessments.

But, but you can tell how this war is going by the rhetoric coming

from the administration itself.

it was initially supposed to be a couple days long, it was just gonna

be this real short thing, in and out, no big deal, all that sort of stuff.

and then you can tell that, The US and its allies in the region are getting a

hit more so than they had had expected to.

that's one thing that we're definitely seeing is that, the US has proven

incapable of defending their so-called partners who they have these defense

agreements with and bases on.

And so it's gonna be a wake up call for not just, partners in the region, but

across the world where the US has all these bases, all these defense agreements,

all these security agreements with and all that, that when it really hits the

fan, you know, who's the US protecting themselves in Israel and that's it.

Right?

and so that, that's one one real notable thing that we're seeing is that

basically, Iran is touching, anything that it, it wants that doesn't include,

Israel and In the United States.

And then, some of the other things, we are seeing, I've seen, limited,

but reports of, some of the access of resistance forces in the region,

kind of starting to, attack back.

we've got a, war going on, like a kind of a side war going on

between Hezbollah and Israel.

Israel has invaded, and they're just shelling, Beirut and Southern

Lebanon as well, trying to prosecute that aspect of the war.

But another thing is that, the US is consistently, claiming that the

administration, sorry for my dog, y'all.

they're consistently, Saying that, that, that everything is going swimmingly, but

yet they're trying to find new strategies to basically prosecute this war.

So, I mean, just in the last few days we're looking to see if the

Kurds are going to arm the Kurds and support the Kurds, Iranian Kurds,

living in Iran or living in rock, now that's basically off the table.

we've heard that the US is gonna provide, insurance for ships, trying

to get through the strait of hor moose, which has been closed by Iran.

don't know if that's going anywhere.

Everything I've read says that basically it's not even hardly

possible to really insure these ships.

just in the last, day or two I saw a headline saying that Trump says, maybe

we'll take the straight of hor moves or we'll escort ships through the

straight of horror moves, which these are basically just, suicide traps.

So, it really looks like this administration has no idea how to

prosecute this war to any degree of, achieving their original goals.

and it looks like the air defense, munitions are starting to run

out, particularly for Israel as more and more missiles, drones and

everything are getting through.

And so, this is about the timeframe that the last war ended and.

We know that Trump had, basically asked Iran for a ceasefire.

He said, Iran said, absolutely not because they know, that if they

were to ask for a ceasefire now, then how long is it gonna take?

Another six months or less or more time before the US and

Israel are right back to this?

This is existential for Iran.

Iran has been preparing for this for decades.

the US has been preparing for the, and, and Israel have been

preparing for this for decades.

And so, we are in a full blown war.

And, it's still sort of remarkable how it, can kind of avoid, the national attention

that it truly, truly, truly deserves.

Yeah.

Hey, Monisha, what's your thoughts on this?

I'm really, paying attention to the narratives that

are floating around social media.

And news media, mainstream media, especially the ones that are

pinkwashing or weaponizing, femininity and women's issues to try to gain

support for any type of Islamophobic aggression, like what we're seeing.

so I've been paying attention also to how outlets like Al Jazeera, that's

in one of the Gulf States that has some questionable relationship going

on in the midst of all of this.

Like how the narrative around the government of Edon has been moving through

spaces, how people are responding to it.

I know in your intro, Giovanni you mentioned how, leftists are chiming

in on things, or in the document that you sent it's really true, and I can

see why, when these are the narratives that are getting sent around and

people wanna latch onto how they relate to those stories and just the truly

the psychological warfare behind it.

yeah, so that's where I am.

I'm at just watching and kind of observing the way that, sadly, people are just

latching onto it and maybe not really critically looking at why are these

the things that are being said when this government doesn't really care

at all about women or queer people.

You know, why are we like, BBC, like the athletes recently in Australia?

Australia gave asylum to, because they didn't sing the national

anthem during the game for Elon.

and now all the articles about that are just how terrified they are, how

they have to be protected, how there's members of the lgbtq plus community and

this group that needs to be protected.

They'll face persecution and stuff like that.

So it's just really sickening the way that oppressed groups are being

weaponized, that our struggles are being weaponized to justify, atrocities.

Yeah.

and indeed, not only that's the audience, there's also the Christian

fundamentalist audience as well, that they're being projected also

images and narratives and whatnot.

I seen a post on Instagram where it was like this, it was like this two,

these two cartoons, these two, this two, you know, little caricature.

Right.

And there's one that was just losing his mind or whatever, right.

And the other one just like real calm and just drinking his coffee.

and the caption said, right, when you see other people losing their

mind about events, but you know, it's prophecy, that's a common one.

everything's prophecy, right?

So, it's how they're targeting different groups of different,

silos in the western world.

And underlying all you just mentioned, you hit the head in the nail.

'cause in the line of all this is Islamophobia and there's a lot of

ignorance in the western world of Islam and there's a lot of Islam phia.

They get filtered within the right wing, within the, leftist circles and there's

a lot of underlying Islamophobia that,

Weaponized and using different manners for the Christian fundamentalists,

for the Jewish person, for the leftists, for the American firster,

so there's different narratives, but the baseline is Islamophobia.

and just like going back to what, Kagan mentioned about the balkanization.

there are maps out there, where the drawing, of how Iran would look like,

balkanized, like different little countries, different ethno states

and whatnot, that they're trying to, dry it up and stuff, this planning.

And that was only, not only for ira, because there's only,

there's also one for Russia.

There's also a map.

There was also a map for Iraq as well.

And there was also a map for Syria.

So all these countries, right?

Just like in Yus Lavia.

This big country that poses a threat.

You just break 'em up.

You just break 'em up.

As you break 'em up, right?

you defang them, and you disempower them, right?

And then you just pin all these little, and you break

'em up by ethnicities, right?

Or by different nations.

Different nations and whatnot.

You just haven't pinned against each other.

So they'll, you know, they'll just, you know, they would just, they'll

never possess a threat and they would just be busy themselves and

be on each other's throat, you know?

so how do you, what do you, and a lot of things, people don't

see this as a grand strategy.

Just, just they take it as, as just something that just happened.

You'll see it.

So, and there's a lot of forethought behind this, right?

you know, there's a lot of things connecting to it.

Like if you notice Right.

Be before this, right before this attack.

Right.

two things were happening.

So Netanyahu had visited the White House for like the seventh or eighth time.

And India had visited Israel and was given some type of honors and stuff like that.

And you saw the, prime Minister, Morran, was in Morandi, by the

whaling wall and everything.

So they was given, and keep in mind that, that India and Iran, both of

are Brix members, you know, so it just happened right before, like a

day or two right before, the attack, the Indian president was in, Israel.

Getting all types of presidential honors and stuff like that I'm interested in

think your thoughts on this and connecting all this, you know, Venezuela, Cuba,

China, Syria and all this to this, Jake, what, what are your thoughts on that?

I,

you can look to the most recent, national security

strategy released, I think early last fall or something like that.

and it's kind of interesting because, in that they're discussing, a pivoting

out of, middle East entanglements,

Or West Asian, entanglements, with the hyper focus on Venezuela, or sorry,

Latin America and the Western Hemisphere.

So as you know, the ramping up a pressure on Cuba and then obviously the

operation, against Venezuela goes down.

That seemed to dovetail with what they had laid out in national security strategy.

and then this would appear to kind of go by the wayside or basically,

go against that strategy laid out.

But there's something that does really tie all of it really together.

And we're talking about oil, right?

we're talking about energy.

and, whether it be, on the very local level, or whether it be in the

international level, like especially with, advanced computing data centers,

AI and all these sorts of things, the, amount of energy required to basically

in this kind of new technological arms race of sorts, everyone's seeking

to, have energy dominance once again.

Not that it necessarily ever went away, but that it's regaining an importance

and, a strategic focus that I think, maybe there is an idea that it would

move to more kind of green solutions or something like that, say solar,

wind, hydro, that sort of stuff.

but right now still the main thing is petroleum gas, so on and so,

If you really look, at how it all is kind of playing out, it really looks

like the closest allies to China, at least in terms of being able to provide,

oil and those types of resources.

Are really getting severed off from their relationship with China.

And so if we talk about the balkanization of Iran, you can basically ask yourself

like what are the interests there?

we saw this a little bit with, Libya, and I don't wanna go too deep into that or

whatever, but the idea that Afghanistan and Iraq basically, proved that the US

cannot do nation building, it can't do those long-term occupations and so on.

And so the immediate next, war that the US engages in, in the

Obama administration was Libya.

Right.

And basically, it didn't look the same way that it looked

like with Iraq and Afghanistan.

It was basically just destroy it, bring it to abject chaos.

And then.

Mission accomplished at that point, right?

The mission was never to ensure a stable Libya to follow or anything

like that, to make sure that, the US has a friendly government or there, or

whatever, any of those kind of things.

But it was basically just cut that off, just whatever interest

the us, or whatever, reason the US wanted to minimize that.

just cut it off.

Well, in the intervening, decade plus, you know, you know, it's not that long ago.

I think probably around, Iraq, Afghanistan, like the two

thousands and such, we were talking about the US being in peak oil.

Well then comes the, what do you call it, the unconventionals boom.

so there we're talking about fracking.

deep water, mountaintop removal, tar sands, so on and so forth.

where, new technologies have, had unleashed, US oil fields, and US oil

productivity to the point that the US is now the number one exporter.

So the US doesn't necessarily need Iran.

What it needs is, it needs control.

It needs control, over the global oil supply.

And so that's what, making, all these deals and such with the Gulf monarchies,

is really a lot about making sure that their interests are served by those

resources and not the interests of their adversaries, which we hopefully,

I mean, I know in this program and many others, talk about that and just,

analysts will say point blank like our number one, adversary is China.

And then, further down the list is Russia, right?

So, what I really do think, we're looking at here is not necessarily

that, The us, needs to have, Iran's oil.

That's not necessarily what they need here.

It's not about stealing the oil, but it is about controlling China's access

to oil and China's access to energy, especially as China is making, a serious

run to basically securing, energy independence, especially in the form of,

renewable energy and so on and so forth.

So the US is trying to kind of, beat the clock on that, so that they can

maintain a technological and, energy advantage the rest of the world.

So that's kind of where my take's at, but I'm happy to

hear what, others have to say.

so that's one of the things that we saw with the, encouragement

in Venezuela, for example, one of the first things they did.

Now going back to Libya, like you said.

one of the first thing they did one day destroy the government

of Libya and Libya to this day.

And that was back in what, 2012.

To this day, Libya does not have a stable government.

and they have rival factions, you know, violent for power.

and they're still stifling off.

The oil is still being stifled off, of Libya.

and it's ending up in European markets.

but one of the first things they did was China had a lot of investment in

Libya and after the TRO Gaddafi right.

Chinese investment was sent home packing.

Right.

same thing we saw with Venezuela.

Venezuela had a lot of tight relations with China and Russia.

Right.

And one of the things that we saw now as the UE oil is pretty

much held for ransom is captured.

one of the thing is to one, reduce.

They had to stop oil flow to Cuba, which they had an arrangement with Cuba.

And also to, break off from China and Russia.

Also, one of the things with Venezuela is prior to the

incursion of January 3rd, right.

in the kidnapping of Madura.

Netanyahu was in DC in December, not too long before that.

And also, so you can see also that this incursion in Venezuela was necessary

to secure the Venezuelan oil, right?

Because of the disruption of the attacking around that, that

might cost to the oil flow.

Kagan, you got thoughts?

it's just been really sad seeing, All the civilian debts and the fact

that they've been targeting Toran and IBA and other major cities where again,

if this was ever the stated goal was about regime change, they've completely

flipped this because now people are supporting the government more than ever.

it's the rally around the flag effect that happens generally, and it makes

me sad to see that, we went from all these people who were like, yes, we

need something better to now more people being like, screw this invasion.

'cause we got illegally and offensively attacked.

So I wonder how they're feeling.

I wish there was more information coming from the Iranian people about.

What was going on.

I've been seeing some different perspectives and I've been

hearing some different folks be like, yes, this is good.

But also like, no, it's not good.

I've heard some other people that are trying to thread the needle of like,

we, like us imperialism is bad, but also like the Islamic theocracy is not good.

So it's been interesting seeing the people try to find their own narrative

or their own perspective and, cure it.

'cause it's not something we get a lot in America.

Yeah.

I'm to a conclusion that diaspora of, any country that's under, that's

a target is not always the most reliable source of information.

Right.

We saw with the bombing of Venezuela.

You saw the Miami Venezuelans, in the streets and joy and

happy and stuff like that.

And they were presented as, they were the voice of Venezuela.

Actually, the Miami Venezuelans and the Venezuelans in Madrid,

they, they became rep overnight.

They became a representative of all Venezuela, right?

You saw this just recently, now with the bombing, of Iran.

You saw these Iranians in California and in Northern Virginia, celebrating

and dancing with the flag, the Marcus flag, not the current flag, but the

Marcus flag, which is interesting

You see 'em sometime when we had protests in the us Like, a progressive

protest, and stuff like, sometimes you see them joining these protests

with the Monica flag and people that no one ever think about 'em, right?

who these people are and whatnot.

They're supporting, you know, so that, so a narrative, and, you know,

just like Manisha said earlier.

You know, each, each conflict starts with a narrative because they start to,

they have to start building the terrain.

They have to start building the terrain at home to manufacture consent,

before an action is taken, right?

so the battle always starts first as a cognitive battle.

And that's something that Monisha and I have always talked a lot about this as

part of the hybrid war and the, production of color revolutions and stuff like

that, where you mobilize people, right?

But first attacking the cognitive, the mindset, you know, that's how

you mobilize people and manipulate people towards certain goals.

Monisha, you wanna hit a little bit more on that?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think too, like they really do need to do this, especially with these

latest aggressions against Iran, because they were losing the narrative war.

with Palestine.

Israel has had lost that war, at least in my analysis.

And so I think that they're having to do leaps and bounds, to try and

get as much approval for this as quickly as possible as they can.

what are you all seeing there in the us?

Because here in Puerto Rico, I am seeing the Venezuelans and Cubans, here teaming

up to sway narrative, to support, invasion of Venezuela, invasion of Cuba regime

change in both of those countries, as well as seeing, news media here, basically

echoing the US news media and how they're covering, the war against data on.

But what are you all seeing in the US as far As particular

narratives to get people to support.

Anybody wanna hit that?

There?

There aren't any.

There hasn't been any.

There's the only, narratives that they've tried to push are, we're

doing this for the Iranian people.

That didn't last very long.

Then it was, we're doing this for, so they, they can't threaten

our bases in the Middle East, but like, that's not happening either.

I mean, they're not able to accomplish that objective.

So they're just scrambling right now.

So it's just been like, throw some stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

Yeah, I agree.

so I've heard that, LA or whatever has, strong.

Protest in support of this, but in San Antonio, there's basically nothing.

And, there's been a couple times that people have come out on the streets

kind of before all this a little bit.

but frankly, there's been people that get a little confused, like, especially

during the protests in January, but as people, get there, they're like,

oh, I don't know what to think.

And then they see the plethora of, Israel flags and so they're like,

oh, the Zionists are out here.

I know which side to be on.

Right.

So, I mean, it's, I don't hear anyone supporting this

war, like, literally, no one.

the protests that we've had, last summer, and then again, now, you know,

we've got, a diaspora Iranian, that basically is against these wars and

has been coming out to them and stuff.

But I mean, it is masked up.

It is hat on, it is sunglasses on and all this.

So, I mean, there's fear.

There's fear for, you know, diaspora people that don't to the

monarchist diaspora line, right?

And so, now this is all very different when it comes to,

Venezuela, Cuba and so on.

I think those, narratives have been, very different.

And they don't, they aren't so intertwined with Zionism and

with the, the genocide and so on.

And so, I do find that people are much more likely to be,

confused by those narratives.

You know, here in San Antonio we have a very large immigrant, Venezuelan

community and, the Venezuelan immigrants, they know what line to take when,

they're trying to, you know, keep their, keep their heads down, so to speak.

Right?

Because, you know, you've, one, you've got basically an administration that's

coming for every damn immigrant.

And then also, You don't wanna bring attention to that.

And you've got pressure from the more established, Venezuelan diaspora.

This all goes for Cuba as well, like basically the same.

we have more Venezuelans than Cubans, but we've got never increasing

population of, Cuban, immigrants as well.

And, so yeah, it's tough because the, the kind of, let's just

call it like ruling class of.

diaspora people, basically are all about bombing our people, destroying

our countries, sanctioning our people, starving them, wrecking their, their

infrastructure, so on and so forth.

And making life as hard as possible for people, back home.

and then you've got this assault on immigration community.

And so I really do think that, especially with Venezuelans, which is a much more

recent, development in terms of, diaspora politics, but very tied to the immigration

policy that allowed Venezuelans stay.

s is that

Temporary protective status.

Rachel, who is my wife, Cuban, Pro Revolution Cuban, but

from a reactionary family.

she went, to the Mexico side of the border a couple years back, basically,

and talked to, a number of Venezuelans and they're there practicing how you

talk in order to be able to get your temporary protected status right.

And Rachel knew all this she's my age, like over 40 years old.

and basically, she remembers this from the eighties, nineties, the wet foot,

dry foot, policies and so on of, you know, you basically keep your mouth shut.

you support you support the overthrow of the quote unquote regime.

And, you just get to work because you've got a privilege, immigration status

if you do, if you follow these steps.

And so, it's a, in that way, the US creates kind of a weaponized community.

And so, that's part of the work that Rachel does is really.

using that exact, status back around and says, actually no,

I've been to Cuba several times.

I love my people.

I love my people here in the us even if they get kind of confused.

And I love my people in Cuba.

And the one thing that we, if we love our people and we love Cuba, the one

thing we should be in agreement of is that we don't want our people to suffer.

And so, those are the things.

So anyone advocating for the sanctioning of their country, anyone advocating

for the bombing of their country, for the political, economic, any sort

of destabilization of their people.

You're a devil.

You're a devil.

and don't follow those people.

Don't follow those people.

And like when you're not from those diasporas, you can get kind of

drowned out and stuff like that.

but it doesn't mean keep your mouth shut because, hi, hi, history.

History will absolve us, if you will.

and a lot of people don't.

Think that also many of these people, many of the, like the top

spinners of narratives, right?

They're on a payroll, you know, they're on a payroll, somebody's paying them.

Right?

And you saw that, and you know, this Crown Prince, Reza, Reza Paval, right?

he lives in Maryland, not too far away from the C headquarters, right?

He's been, you know, he's like the son of the post Shah, of Iran, right?

He's been in payroll ever since.

He grew up in the States.

He came here as a kid, and he grew up in the States.

And every time there's some type of protest or some type of outre,

he shows up miraculously, right?

They revive him or they bring him back out to the media and stuff like that.

And he's like the leadership, like the monarch in waiting.

And those Iranian flag with the line.

That's what they are.

they're the monarchy flag, and that's the flag that represent him and his family.

the PA Valley family.

And you see that in South Florida.

Misha can attest to this, right?

there's like a weaponized immigrant industry in South Florida, right?

to spit out all these narratives against their, home countries,

whether it be, Venezuela, whether it be Cuba or Nicaragua, right?

So all these people, right?

they're like similar right there.

It's like weaponized, you know, ready to be used every time.

and you also think about this too, that the narrative of the weapons

of mass destruction in Iraq, came from the Iraq diaspora, right?

That narrative.

That's what it came from.

It came from this so-called, defectors, right?

Defectors from Saddam's Circle, right?

They're the one who was pushing out the idea of WMD, and they were saying what

the Bush White House wanted to hear because the intelligence community was

saying something different, but the Bush White House, that's what they want.

The Rumsfield, the Dick Cheney, that's what they want.

they took that narrative and just ran with it, and they fear monger

the American people with it, right?

And just kept going with that narrative and the New York

time and everybody, right.

Just keep going with that narrative.

Right?

And that's what gave the consent, right, of American people.

To go ahead and destroy Iraq, you know?

But yeah, I think that narrative of WMV came from the diaspora, came from this

so-called, you know, defectors, right?

Who, by the way, you know, they had one of them,

What was his name?

Jake.

he was like the president in waiting, and they had him, I think he was

in, Val Chival, remember Chival?

He was like the president in waiting, right?

So they were going, the post they went the post shadam, and he was supposed

to go in, you know, riding in a white horse and everybody's going, everybody's

gonna love him, and he's gonna be the next president of Iran, right?

Iraq, they put him in power, and nobody wanted him.

Nobody even know who he was.

You know, they didn't know who he was, right?

So he didn't last long there, So when you see these narratives, coming from

the D you gotta think about this, right?

That like, just like Jake said, some of these people are weaponized, some of

these people, you know, that the industry that produces these narratives as well.

I also wanna hear your thoughts on, going back to my initial

said earlier about the different narratives going to different people.

It seems like every time there is a country who's targeted for regime

change, in the United States, did, you see leftists joining in the attack by

attacking the attack country from the left with statements like, you know,

I don't support the people, I don't, I support the people, I don't support

the government, stuff like that.

but, you know, they, they, they, they participate in the attacking also, but

from the left, from left narrative, from left vocabulary and stuff like that.

Right.

but they're also participant in the attacking of those same countries.

What are your thoughts on that?

I actually have a kind of specific example of that, I wanna mention.

because when Rachel and I were first getting kind of educated on things,

and especially getting more and more curious about Cuba and just like,

okay, what's the reality with Cuba?

Because Rachel grew up in Miami.

Rachel had a family that was very much against, the revolution and so on.

And so we're just like, well, what's this all actually mean?

And we're trying to figure it out, right?

So we're just, doing what anyone would do.

let's do a quick, Google search.

But, we're smart about it, so we're gonna use some key words and whatever, right?

anyways, the main stuff that we're finding, at the time were

basically, two things, right?

anti-blackness in Cuba and then, homophobia in Cuba.

And so these are the left perspectives, right?

And so, we were clearly just looking for whatever information that would basically

tell a different story than what is 99% of what you're going to hear in the us.

but these things kind of, are the netting that they provide for you.

Like, oh, no, no, no, you're not gonna fall off the imperialist

narrative that easily.

We're still gonna catch you in this, safety net, right?

and tell you, the real story about Cuba, right?

But, since Cuba passed the Families Code, in 2019, which basically is.

One of the, I don't know, most progressive, L-G-B-T-Q laws in the world.

It, lays out tremendous rights, for women and families and children.

And the scope of it is something that quite literally we can't

really imagine here in the us.

So in between that time, what I'm saying is the US has gotten more and more and

more horrifying for queer people in the United States while Cuba has, solidified,

a full spectrum of rights for queer people and women and so on in, the US is now

basically, banning abortion if you live in a state like mine in, Texas, right?

all these kind of things, right?

where are the people that are like, oh, okay, now.

Now we got to, now we gotta switch up and now we gotta basically

support the revolution and bring the critique to the United States.

That ain't, that's not how this is gonna work.

That's not how this is gonna happen.

Their utility was for one thing, and that was attacking Cuba, not for the

rights of women, not for the rights of queer people and nothing like that.

Not for, equality equality among races or anything like that.

so the mask comes off real quick.

Once, you see some serious, serious as fascistic turns in the United States,

they're not gonna, go back and say, oh, maybe we're wrong about that, and make

any Mayor Culpas about any of that.

you're muted.

Jovanni.

Yeah.

So Monisha, what's your thought on that?

I mentioned this a little bit before when we spoke with Bazad

about Venezuela in a previous, episode.

something that is essential for the left to remember is specifically the American

left, the u Sian left has to remember to check its own American exceptionalism.

And when you are looking at other countries and other cultures that are

not yours and how they are struggling internally in their own processes of

liberation, in all of the facets of liberation struggle that exist around

the world, that mirror the struggles.

That have been experienced in the US for women and queer people, children,

African Afro descendant people.

Nobody's innocent anywhere when it comes to these things.

Cuba is not special in terms of, oh look, they're doing this bad thing.

That's part of Latin American culture in every freaking Latin American country.

it's true here in Puerto Rico.

It's also true in the us So multiple things can be true.

At the same time, levels of oppression and social change.

Cultural change takes time.

Things have to build on one another in order for these processes to take

place because they're human processes.

We're changing human beings the way they think and perceive the world, perceive

themselves and others and the world.

It's about changing relationships to one another.

It's not just.

Oh, suddenly, a country becomes socialist economically and politically and therefore

they must be perfect in every way.

It's unrealistic and childish and naive.

and secondly, there is a time and a place for the left to do criticism

and self-criticism when your comrades are under attack from an imperial

power that may not necessarily be the time or the place to exercise

criticism of a government and a country and a culture that is not yours.

Exactly what you just said.

Can I read your comment?

So Jake just put in our chat.

The time and place always seems to be when they're under the gun and how convenient.

Right.

And so that's where like I would ask my fellow leftists,

to check themselves on that.

Same thing with Iran.

That's not your culture.

That's not your government.

It's not your Country.

Yes, we can acknowledge there are injustices that

are common around the world.

These are universal experiences for women and queer people.

I'm a woman and a queer person, so you know, let's not pink wash things.

let's be responsible.

Let's be critical of ourselves and how we are conducting ourselves in or

out of solidarity with people who are currently under attack by imperialism.

Let's take responsibility for the imperial core.

you can't bomb, you can't bomb a country into whipping

'em up to, into perfection.

Yeah.

Sorry,

let's not come badly.

So look, I think we have to step back also think about, from the

American left perspective, right?

People don't know how it is to live under siege, right?

a lot of these countries are targeted, they're living under siege, right?

And there was the same back, I think it was back to the, Spanish revolution.

In 1936, there was a saying that, you know, when under siege, right, dissidents

is treason, and that was a saying, right?

And also the fifth columnists, that was also the fifth columnists also came

from the Spanish revolution as well.

Whereas, you know, you're trying to hold the line, but you have people

in the line within you, right, that are, that are working for the enemy.

You know, that's the term fifth column came from.

but yeah, so when a country is under siege, right, behaves differently

because now suddenly, right, everything comes in attack, particularly right?

When you're attacking it, economically, when you're attacking

it diplomatically, when you're trying to isolate the country, right?

from the global market, you know when you're enticing their

population from within, right?

To, to, as a fifth columnist, right?

To destroy it from within.

So all those realities.

Happens, you know, when a country's under siege, right?

So a country, naturally, a state naturally is gonna react differently

than when it's not on the siege.

And take for instance, Vietnam for example, right?

Vietnam is a socialist country, right?

the socialist oriented country, right?

But right now, also one of the fastest, economy in South Asia, right?

They have high speed training, all the jazz, right?

When did that happen?

That happened.

they start flourishing.

Once the United States lifted sanctions on them, in 94.

Once they lifted sanctions on them, right?

then they start feeling more secure and they start flourishing after that, right?

So when the country's under siege, right, it's gonna behave differently, right?

Whereas if it's not under siege, if it's left alone, right, it resolve

its own problem, won't resolve it organically inside, right?

when you try to undermine it, from outside, right?

They gonna take measures.

People are gonna take measures, right?

For example, like recently, Jake and I were talking about this, you guys remember

about the boats, going into, that got stopped, on its way to Cuba, right?

it had arsen of weapons in there.

Bombs cocktail, cocktail, what do you call those?

multiple of cocktails.

Multiple cocktails, right?

Sniper rivals and so, and, and all that jazz, right?

They were caught by, I think there were 10 of them, right?

four them got killed in exchange with the Cuban, coast Guard, right?

What was the weapon?

What were the weapons for?

What were, what were the heading, you know, what, what was the intention

behind those weapons, right?

You think about what happened in the protest in Venezuela, right?

It happened several times in Venezuela when you had the,

the mysterious sniper, right?

Who was sniping, the protestors and was sniping also the security forces.

Why?

To get a reaction from the security forces, right?

And, the same thing happened in Ukraine, right?

When the Ukraine with the Maan, right, there was this the

same mysterious sniper, right?

Was sniping at the protestors.

It was sniping at the security forces.

The same thing happened in Nicaragua.

They was sniping at the protest in 2018.

It was sniping at the protest, and it was sniping at the security forces.

Why is that?

Why does that happen?

It's to create chaos.

It's to create a reaction from security forces, right?

So they can overreact so that way you can have it in Canberra so that

we can show it through the world.

these people are brutes, these people are savages.

They need to be overthrown, so you gotta think, put that all into

perspective and think about that, right?

and not be such a purist, right?

you cannot expect a state that's under siege for 40 years

in the case of Iran, right?

67 years in the case of Cuba, right?

To be a Jeffersonian democracy.

You know, you can't, I mean, that's, like you said, that's naive, childish.

irresponsible.

I don't

yeah, so, I think we gotta, wrap it up pretty soon.

But, I wanted, one thing also I want to mention with Jo, something that Jody

Barr said, she's a British, communist and writer and, and, and, you know, thinker.

and she talked about recently about the reaction of the Iraq war, the

versus the Iran, the war in Iran.

Right.

So for the Iraq war, like.

Millions of people came out of the region even before it started.

Right.

Protesting it.

But you're not seeing the same protest with the Iran war.

Right.

Hardly everybody, just handful of people came out.

We had a protest here and I think 70 people came out, not even that.

but in the I Iraq war back in 90, in 2002, you had mobilization.

People, you know, say, we don't want war.

There were like millions of people, like in like multiple cities around

the world and stuff like that.

But you're not seeing it with this one.

and her theory is that back then, back in 2000, and two people thought

that, you know, like democracies, you know, the west and stuff like that.

They're like the, you know, the thing of democracies, you know, that when

people come out, our government listens to us and they saw that they came out

in the millions protesting the millions.

And the war still happened, and every time they come out, people come out,

with Different protests, and it still happens, you know, where there's war,

where there's something else, you know?

and they came to the conclusion that our leadership are not listening

to us no matter what we do.

We do sit-ins, we saw this with the, in the gospel war or in the God

of genocide, people doing sit-ins.

you saw about 400 Jewish Americans went to the rotunda, right.

And did a sitin there and all got arrested, you know, and I was there.

They, they, they, intentional.

the only one that Jewish Americans there.

Just so people can know that this is not an anti, it's not anti-Semitic

to oppose the genocide, right?

And they all got arrested and continued anyway.

So her, her, her theory is that people are so disillusioned and feel so

disempowered that they feel that whatever they do, nothing's gonna change, right?

So they just don't go out and do it.

I'm interested in, what you guys have to say about this.

I know you had your hands up, but let, can we pass it on to Jake or

Kagan, see what they think about that

I think there's elements of truth to that.

I think it's a little overly simplistic to basically, put it all on that,

but just as someone who does go to a lot of protests and who organizes

protests and who, a lot of times I don't wanna organize a protest 'cause

it, like we're talking about, right.

the real question, right?

That is like, okay, so if that's.

If that's the case, then like what do we do?

Right?

going back to really proving the point and whether, whether people not

protesting is the real reason for it.

I don't know, but like, I think it's a 2014 study by, is it Benjamin?

Anyways, Gils and Page I know are the names.

Benjamin Page and something else.

Gi, gi Gil's.

Anyways, it doesn't super matter, but, basically it shows like that, that study

basically shows that the US population has no, say on, and not just the US

population, but the voting population.

Right.

Which is a very different thing if you, we really need to understand.

That who votes is different than the American population or the

population living in the United States.

So the voting population, has no sway, no impact on the decision making

power in the United States at all.

and so this is true, but that was true.

as that study revealed in 2014, but yet, in 2020, people came out in record numbers

for, the Black Lives Matter movement.

And then again, for Gaza, people came out in the biggest protest movement ever.

So what we're seeing, right?

Like I remember, and I don't know what people are getting

taught in school these days.

I remember just basically, the narrative that I was taught was like, the United

States was, racist and segregated and so on and in the protest movement.

And yeah, there were problems with it and there was violence coming,

different, sites or whatever.

But in the end, the protest movement brought about civil rights, right?

Like, hopefully we know that's kind of a mythology that we've built

about ourselves or whatever, but that's the story we were told.

That's the story.

At least I was taught in schools and so on.

and so, that kind of, is part of the zeitgeist or the understanding of, the

regular, American citizen or whatever.

We saw, the largest protest movements we've ever seen in 2020,

and then again with, coming out for GA over an extended period of

time and literally had no impact.

I mean, you could say that, 2020 had some symbolic impact, but, for

Gaza, the forces were so entrenched despite everybody being horrified.

And so really, what changed was the national narrative amongst the people, but

nothing in the political sphere right now.

I don't wanna say that that doesn't have any bearing on any importance or whatever.

policy is different than just.

where people are at is different than just what policy means right the hell.

Now.

I think these things are still meaningful.

They're still important, and I think we still do need to

turn out for anti-war protests.

We still do need to counter narratives.

we still do need to have those discussions.

But I'll say this, as my last kind of thought here on at least this topic,

but, you know, it's not all that uncommon for me and my comrades and whatever.

community and so on to organize people to get out, to go speak at

city council for this or that local issue or this or that issue, period.

Now, is it because we think City Council is going to move on our position?

Of course not.

I've done that so many times.

They never, ever, ever, ever move on what I'm talking about,

but I'm not talking to them.

I know that is televised and that there are numbers of people that watch that,

televised and then also have your own media and propagate your own media from

these speak outs and so on and so forth.

And we publish those things, right?

and so we're not trying to move the city council anymore.

That's a fool's errand.

But We are trying to make.

Logical arguments to the people that connect with their livelihood and the

larger issues that are under discussion, whether they be international or

whether they be local ruling class, people basically stealing our wealth

for whatever the hell they want it for.

But we wanna make those arguments to de-legitimize the people who claim

to be our leaders who claim to know better than us, who claim to know,

what to do about literally anything.

'cause they don't, they don't know how to run an economy

that works for really anybody.

But the richest people, they don't know how to win wars.

Clearly.

They don't know how to win wars.

And so when they lose wars, it's like I told you, they don't know how to win wars.

All the things that they say, trust us because we are the experts.

No, you're not.

You're bought and sold corrupted pieces of shit and we're gonna call

you out every chance we freaking get until the people are with us.

And, and basically say Basta about any of this shit,

Kagan.

it's very interesting.

There has been some, protests.

I know the UK and London, there was a really big protest.

There was a big protest in New York.

our protest here in Portland was a decent size, not as big

as an Kings, but still big size.

but I don't know, Jake was saying the same, the correct thing of the

fact that we don't have any power when it comes to voting public.

But, we do have power in the local sphere, in the local, community aspect,

which is what we can focus on now.

I just had a casual hangout with other members of the about face group up here.

We just kind of sat down and talked about the war and talked about our feelings and

talked about like what we felt and how, how our experiences of colored our, our

ability to do things, in every aspect.

I know, like if I was in the military right now, I would be so busy because if

I was doing what I was doing when I was in the Navy, like I would be so fucking busy.

And that's scary because like, I spent so much time looking at Iran's military and

now a lot of it is gone and it's it makes me sad 'cause I, I'm thinking about just

all the immense destruction and waste.

The fact that we spent $5.6 billion in the first two days

on this war is just blowing.

That like blew me away when I found that out.

You know, we spent like multiple billions of dollars, almost $10 billion

already, and it's only been 10 days.

Indeed.

Monisha know you had your head on up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was sort something related to Cuba.

just real quick, that was to say to people too that I, I hope that they,

they can look at the family code of Cuba and the new Constitution in

Cuba and it drives home to them that that was accomplished while under

siege and without US intervention.

So congratulations again, Cuba.

but the what?

I am thinking about now related to, what Kagan and Jake have shared about protests.

And the question you asked Giovanni.

I think everything is a process and we're dealing with hybrid war, right?

And the way we understand hybrid war is it happens in parts.

It has components to it, and they operate in particular ways

that compliment one another in order to achieve the larger goal.

And each of us was in the military, and we understand the military

to be a similar type of system.

The reason why the US military succeeds as much as it does, even though it

fails a lot, but there are still successes in terms of expanding power,

in terms of dominating bullying.

Committing atrocities, like the things we don't wanna see happen.

But that's a system made up of different components that are working together.

Not each component does the same thing.

And that's why it works.

And I think when it comes to how people in the US successfully change the way

things happen in the US and the outcomes of that in the rest of the world is not

by using one tool to solve every problem.

I think going back to a quote from Dr.

Martin Luther King that I'm gonna paraphrase because I

can't remember the exact quote.

Those who love, peace, must organize as effectively as those

who love war and we're not.

And I think part of the reason why we're not could be because.

We kind of default to protest even though we are not seeing our desired

outcome happening, no matter how massively we, we can organize ourselves.

And we have shown that we can organize ourselves for that tactic.

But does relying so heavily on that one tactic help us

achieve our strategy and goals?

Not necessarily.

So I wonder if folks would take that same energy and passion and intelligence

and switch it up a bit to focus on how to sustain a long-term general strike.

How do we support one another, maintain one another, keep each other fed, housed,

clothed, and as healthy as possible while sustaining a long-term general strike

And that's why what Jake was touching on about going to meetings, the importance of

speaking up, even though protest doesn't do the whole job, it still does part of

the job with consciousness raising, with building unity, and, and, comradery,

sharing spaces like Kagan was mentioning.

All of that is part of the whole, just like we do that in the military, but

I think if people could communicate with each other maybe a little bit

better, What the action is though, could switch to how do we create mutual

aid networks strong enough to sustain people in a nationwide general strike?

How do we protect our communities when the state's response to that

sustained general strike turns violent?

How do we provide healthcare?

Where do we provide healthcare to people?

How do we protect kids and elders?

You know, like these are the types of things that we would

think about in the military.

Those are just my thoughts on that.

I, what we could do to maybe, I don't know.

Indeed.

Yeah,

start wrapping it up, real quick.

Let's bring it back to Iran.

Iran is one of the pillars of Multipolarity, right?

You know, we're transitioning towards the multipolar world or polar world.

back in 92 with the Woolworths doctrine.

the United States made it clear that after the fall of the Soviet Union, the

United States will not tolerate any other emerging power or any cluster of power

that could challenge the United States.

we've seen it that this past 26 years has been nonstop war.

they didn't foreseen the rise of China at the time in 92.

We see that the arc of resistance right now, what is called the arc of resistance

right now in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, all these

countries, they're being battered right now, beaten right now by imperialism.

do you foresee, what do you foresee?

Do you foresee Iran falling?

what do you guys think about that?

Real quick?

And I'll start with whoever jump in.

I hate that question.

I don't know.

I literally don't know.

I'll say this just to accentuate how much I don't know, but like I do think

that Iran stands strong on this, and I do think that, empire and Zionism has

underestimated it and it's, its ability to stand up to this aggression and it's

the state of it of the existential fight.

And so, that's as far as I can get with having an idea of where I think this goes.

but what I really fear is that that's not where this ends, because I don't see where

Empire and Zionism capitulate at all.

And we know who are actually the nuclear armed actors in this conflict.

And my mind goes there, and I guess I'm glad to actually say this on a

program that's beyond the reach of just like comrades, friends, because I do

think we to have to think about the fact that this is where this can go.

and I fucking hate to say it, but I can see it, and so I don't know

where it goes, and that's kind of terrifying to me, to be quite honest.

So I'll leave that there at a very sobering and difficult note.

Monisha,

I'm in the same place.

I just feel uncertainty about everything and a lot of fear for me, I think

we're already in World War iii.

I think World War II has been happening for a long time.

No one has just officially announced it.

And so I'm definitely, I think maybe that's why my head is where it's at

on things that we're talking about.

It's like, I think we need to get way more serious than we are about

things, because I think it's gonna blow up in our faces quite literally,

and we're not gonna be prepared for what that means for our daily lives.

So it's scary.

And I don't want anon to fall.

I don't want, none of us want this, I do think that it's very

foreboding of things, and especially the way things have escalated.

So quickly and every time we wake up in the morning, there's something new.

so I think we do have to get a little bit grounded in the fact that, we are

in, this is the time that we're in now.

We have to do things differently now.

We don't have a choice.

And then we're also in climate change.

So I'm scared of that too.

Like, how the hell do we survive that while all this other bullshit's going on?

Like so yeah,

GaN

I wanna say that Iran is gonna make us pay like they are not in the

many mood to negotiate and they want to fight because they don't want

to do what they did last year where they just gave them time to re-arm.

And so they're gonna make us pay, they're gonna make it hurt for us.

And I was listening to their foreign minister and he was saying he is

like, we would, we're planning to continue this until the midterms.

And so because they know that like they want it to change and it has to

change drastically for them to be safe.

do you think Israel and the US have the, stomach for that?

I doubt it.

So yeah, your point about nukes Jake makes me scary too because who knows

that they might decide good, it's gone on too long and then just decide

to use one just to try and end it.

But the thing is they can't do that because their command

structure is decentralized now.

So like they can't just keep taking off the leadership and they're willing to take

up to 90% casualties in their leadership.

So like they're willing to fight and fight to the death.

That's not something that we're used to.

And you know how, Americans were so, comfortable and when we are used

to, when there's any disruption in our day, it really does fuck us up.

And so I'm feeling like, you know, when we start seeing, I mean we're already

seeing $5 a gallon here in Portland, so when we start seeing seven, $10 a gallon,

like people are gonna really gonna start being pissed off and wanna do something.

drawing on all three of you.

so there's different motivations for people who are involved in this fight.

The Americans have their motivation, and the Iranians have their motivation.

The Iranians right now, their motivation is that they wanna

preserve the integrity of their state.

They're being attacked, right?

so their, morale is different.

And they've been here before, they've been here before in 1979.

When, they had their revolution.

months after they won the revolution, Iraq, invaded with the support of

the west and the armament of the west to defeat this revolution.

and they fought an eight year war with the Iraqis.

They lost about a million people.

and they were able to defeat the Iraqis.

and that, nuclear war comment that you mentioned, Jake, reminded me of Curtis

LeMay, who was a supreme general of the Air Force, back in, world War II or Korean

War, I believe, during the Cold War.

During the Cold War, right.

Curtis LeMay, he made a, one of his famous statement is that, you know, in the Cold

War, you know, if we go into nuclear, and at the end, if there's two Americans

and one Soviet, I'll call that a victory.

Right?

So that means they don't care about anybody, right.

You know, they just care about winning, right?

At any cost, and.

You know, no matter who, no, they're hollowing, like

you said, they're hollowing.

The, the state, they're hollowing.

The American, the American people, you know, they're

stressing the American people out.

like you said earlier, Kagan, right?

They spent in two days about a billion dollars.

But at the same time, there's people here that have access to healthcare,

because who's gonna pay it?

Right?

That's what they say, right?

So they're hollowing out the state at the same time.

They're trying to preserve their hegemony worldwide.

Right?

That's gonna, and that's gonna fall.

You know, you can't sustain that for a long period of time.

And Zionism has this day counted, just like, South Africa, you

know, it doesn't exist anymore.

It's in the ben of history.

And that's my take, you know, with the revolutionary.

Confident and, optimism that, you know, Zionism is going, is

gonna end up in the, in American.

Zionism is gonna end up in the same spot that, south African apartheid and,

and Nazi and, and German Nazim ended in, in the, in the, the bin of history.

I think that's a good place to wrap up for the day.

thank y'all for coming.

It's such a short notice.

thank y'all for, sharing your thoughts, time, experience with us.

any final comments, but from the three of you.

Before we leave,

I do just wanna mention one thing, just because we've talked about,

Oil prices and oil and stuff like that.

The supply chain risks are way greater than just oil.

as we extend, even if everything was to end tomorrow as we extend, the shocks

to the closing of the Strait of Horus and other things like, destroyed,

infrastructures and whatever, if we extend that out, we are going to be facing that.

2, 5, 7 months down the line, two years down the line, three years down the line.

Not unlike we saw with COVID, right?

And then everybody, but when we get a year or two out, right?

Then everyone can basically start to make up whatever the reasons

for inflation happen to be.

Even though they have recent history.

But, but you know, we are not following supply chain, on the

daily as working class people.

And so they get to tell us whatever the hell reason this or that thing.

Right?

What did they tell us?

like inflation was happening because they gave us $600 or some shit like that.

Like, anyways, this is going to have, this is going to have.

Tremendous impacts on our, cost of living and quality of life, for years to come.

And this is the fault of these war making bastards.

So I wanna say that plant that little seed, don't let them describe

it as anything else because we are collectively destroying infrastructure

that rely upon for our supply chains.

And so this is gonna drive the prices up.

You can't do this without costs and they won't feel a thing

indeed.

Nisha.

No, just thanks.

thank you for organizing this, Giovanni and Jake for coming

on and Kagan for joining in.

it was really good to chat with you all about this stuff and commiserate

a little bit, to be honest.

and hopefully everybody that's listening.

are safe and doing what you can do to survive these days.

So that's all I got.

Yeah, Kagan.

I just hope everyone's taking time for themselves to feel

their feelings and vent and, be in community right now because these are

the times when we need it the most.

So I'm just grateful that there are places out there for us to be feeling this way.

Especially those of us who've been at the business end of empire.

It's nice for us to get to commiserate and be like, look,

that shit's fucked up, right?

Yes, it is indeed.

Yeah.

And We all need that.

So I hope everyone can find that.

I just have to say is that, for my fellow leftists, while living in

the belly of the beast that's doing the aggression, when it stays being aggressed

upon, it's not the time to, it's not the time to, to attack from the left as well,

to join in the attacking from the left.

I guess that's a pet peeve, I wanna put out.

but yeah.

Thank you all for joining us today.

Hope to, I'll see y'all again.

Thank you guys for listening to us.

please share us to other, friends, comrades and whatnot, help us grow,

help us send out the message and, look forward to, talking to y'all next time.

Take care.

Bye.

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